Post by Onnio on Apr 8, 2021 8:37:53 GMT -5
Hey everyone,
Now that the Overages system was put into place without site discussion, I'd like to bring up some concerns I have with the system.
The decision-making process behind implementation is unclear. This is my biggest and deepest concern, and so I'll bring it up first. In the update notice, it was mentioned that "As this system is far easier to implement than adding back XPPW entirely, we will be instituting it effective immediately. If it works out, great! If it turns out this causes issues, well pull it back and rethink our strategy some more."
If it doesn't work out well, it will be much harder to take away than it was to add, because we'll now be in an environment where people gained from the Overages and we're now removing player agency. And if it didn't work, why would we go back to the drawing board (and try to create yet another XPPW?), instead of just scrapping the idea entirely? What's the urgency around XPPW, given that it was a contentious issue?
This kind of goes to my concern over the general nature of the implementation. There was a site discussion, with no broad consensus among the players. The thread was then locked and the idea was pulled. And then a day later, a different flavor of the idea was implemented without any site discussion, despite XPPW still being a contentious issue with no clear agreement.
There is a risk to development in the staff pit and not out in the open on a board, where people present ideas that they worked hard on, and, because everything on Discord is informal and quick and everyone is friends, it just gets implemented by inertia. That's my concern anyway, maybe I'm wrong.
I'd like that any major system overhaul be done in public posts. My preference is to allow community discussion for major changes, but even without community discussion it'd be a benefit I feel for staff to lay out their thoughts and replies etc. in posts rather than exclusively on Discord.
There is no WC limit to the Overages system. Past XPPW systems all had WC limits. Overages currently does not have a stated limit. Because of the low modifier, this may seem like not a big deal. But because the modifier is low, it might encourage certain people to grind that much harder, and since there is no cap, we could see someone make absurdly long posts to defeat the low modifier. To avoid this possibility, I think we should have a per-post limit of 1000 WC award-eligible, and a per-thread cap bonus of 3,000 XP (15,000 Words).
People will once again feel compelled to have internal WC targets. Lastly, one of the main reasons I joined this new iteration was the lack of a wordcount, which I find tremendously refreshing. I'm sure if you actually poled the site, many people would respond that they like no-wordcount. We lived with it for years under Souls and Turbo. Why not try something else for a change? I still don't understand how it can be beneficial, especially when other factors that have yet to be implemented (like LMB), will have a way larger impact on helping the people who can't post as fast as others. The cat's already out of the bag on this one, so I can't think of any solution besides scrapping Overages, which doesn't seem likely.
But given that Overages is probably here to stay, I think it'll be important to address some gaps.
Now that the Overages system was put into place without site discussion, I'd like to bring up some concerns I have with the system.
The decision-making process behind implementation is unclear. This is my biggest and deepest concern, and so I'll bring it up first. In the update notice, it was mentioned that "As this system is far easier to implement than adding back XPPW entirely, we will be instituting it effective immediately. If it works out, great! If it turns out this causes issues, well pull it back and rethink our strategy some more."
If it doesn't work out well, it will be much harder to take away than it was to add, because we'll now be in an environment where people gained from the Overages and we're now removing player agency. And if it didn't work, why would we go back to the drawing board (and try to create yet another XPPW?), instead of just scrapping the idea entirely? What's the urgency around XPPW, given that it was a contentious issue?
This kind of goes to my concern over the general nature of the implementation. There was a site discussion, with no broad consensus among the players. The thread was then locked and the idea was pulled. And then a day later, a different flavor of the idea was implemented without any site discussion, despite XPPW still being a contentious issue with no clear agreement.
There is a risk to development in the staff pit and not out in the open on a board, where people present ideas that they worked hard on, and, because everything on Discord is informal and quick and everyone is friends, it just gets implemented by inertia. That's my concern anyway, maybe I'm wrong.
I'd like that any major system overhaul be done in public posts. My preference is to allow community discussion for major changes, but even without community discussion it'd be a benefit I feel for staff to lay out their thoughts and replies etc. in posts rather than exclusively on Discord.
There is no WC limit to the Overages system. Past XPPW systems all had WC limits. Overages currently does not have a stated limit. Because of the low modifier, this may seem like not a big deal. But because the modifier is low, it might encourage certain people to grind that much harder, and since there is no cap, we could see someone make absurdly long posts to defeat the low modifier. To avoid this possibility, I think we should have a per-post limit of 1000 WC award-eligible, and a per-thread cap bonus of 3,000 XP (15,000 Words).
People will once again feel compelled to have internal WC targets. Lastly, one of the main reasons I joined this new iteration was the lack of a wordcount, which I find tremendously refreshing. I'm sure if you actually poled the site, many people would respond that they like no-wordcount. We lived with it for years under Souls and Turbo. Why not try something else for a change? I still don't understand how it can be beneficial, especially when other factors that have yet to be implemented (like LMB), will have a way larger impact on helping the people who can't post as fast as others. The cat's already out of the bag on this one, so I can't think of any solution besides scrapping Overages, which doesn't seem likely.
But given that Overages is probably here to stay, I think it'll be important to address some gaps.